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see here's the crux of the matter: if you keep doing exactly the same thing you will get exactly the same results which means that somewhere between being say a B guy and an A guy all of that stuff changed for you. And as you go faster, as I'm sure you will, all of those things will change again.
thinking about a turn, say Pascal's insane deal with getting out way wide on the curbing in 4 @ beaver (he told me the same thing), and making a change leads to one of 3 things for the lap as a whole: same time, better time, slower time - but one of those outcomes is certain. some changes work some do not.
my problem is that i have no consistency all the way around - i'm sort of along for the ride rather than actually being in control of it. i think all the inputs that i am reacting to now are not really the correct ones, be it my knee or lack of reference points.
it may not be really a matter of slowing down but rather just paying more attention to the correct things rather than the crap that's apparently occupying the space between my ears.

Author:	madski [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:	twist of the wrist
so the knee puck thread got me thinking. code's book has been my on-throne entertainment for the last few days. a lot of what he says makes a good bit of sense. biggest thing for me is the thing about being an observant rider vs. just trying to aimlessly go fast without understanding why (and in my case without much success). when i drove a lot i used to think stuff through rather just aimlessly barreling ahead like i do on the bike. i think a lot of it has to do with something he talks about regarding having a limited amount of attention (his $10 bill) to spend on everything going on and the allocation of the funds so to speak. i feel like i'm spending far more on just riding than i ever did on driving, leaving me with a lot less ability to make intelligent decisions regarding how i'm actually riding vs. just surviving. the other thing is as part of this i'm not picking up reference points on the track and thus i have very little consistency lap to lap. i think i've yet to run the same line through 10 & 11 at beaver in all the times i've been there. while trying different things is really not a bad idea i can't even come close to putting a finger to what worked and what didn't and more importantly why. in effect my puck (to tie the other thread in) has become my reference point in place of the track itself - i am reacting to my own actions rather to what the track and the bike are doing. i'm thinking i really need to completely change my approach back to the way i used to try to think though each turn in a car and dial things back if need be to achieve that. i think otherwise i'm just going to keep bouncing off the same lap times and frustrations - sort of the definition of insanity - expecting different results for doing the same thing.

Author:	GixxrSixxr [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
sometime with me, if i think to much it slows me down. when that happens i just ride and dont think as much really. example, last time at beaver when me and pascal walked the track after it closed, he showed me when he turns into 4 he is over the curbing on the left. so next day i try that to see if i can do the same thing. turns out i focused so much on hitting that spot i went slower. consistency wise you just got to do the same thing over and over. last session at beaver i ran 13 laps in a row between 1:04.2 and 1:04.8 you just got to brake same spot, turn in same spot, roll on the gas same spot. im sure you know that, just stating.

Author:	madski [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
see here's the crux of the matter: if you keep doing exactly the same thing you will get exactly the same results which means that somewhere between being say a B guy and an A guy all of that stuff changed for you. And as you go faster, as I'm sure you will, all of those things will change again. thinking about a turn, say Pascal's insane deal with getting out way wide on the curbing in 4 @ beaver (he told me the same thing), and making a change leads to one of 3 things for the lap as a whole: same time, better time, slower time - but one of those outcomes is certain. some changes work some do not. my problem is that i have no consistency all the way around - i'm sort of along for the ride rather than actually being in control of it. i think all the inputs that i am reacting to now are not really the correct ones, be it my knee or lack of reference points. it may not be really a matter of slowing down but rather just paying more attention to the correct things rather than the crap that's apparently occupying the space between my ears.

Author:	stevedave [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
2 comments... 1. That fact that you are thinking about these things is a huge step into becoming a better rider. You have to almost take a 3rd person perspective and really visualize what you are doing. Then pick 1 or 2 things you are doing incorrectly and focus on them until they become habit. That will free up your attention on those to focus on other things. However if you do not know what you are doing incorrectly, you can never fix your bad habits. 2. I thought the same thing about RP (reference points), that I didn't have any. However that last time at beaver I noticed I had a lot more than I thought. They tend to become second nature and you don't even realize you are keying off of them. The problem is when they RPs are wrong and they slow you down. For instance, if your braking RP for a corner is too early, you will overbrake the corner every time. You need to analyze your RPs and adjust accordingly as you get faster. Just my .02

Author:	GixxrSixxr [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
madski wrote: see here's the crux of the matter: if you keep doing exactly the same thing you will get exactly the same results which means that somewhere between being say a B guy and an A guy all of that stuff changed for you. And as you go faster, as I'm sure you will, all of those things will change again. thinking about a turn, say Pascal's insane deal with getting out way wide on the curbing in 4 @ beaver (he told me the same thing), and making a change leads to one of 3 things for the lap as a whole: same time, better time, slower time - but one of those outcomes is certain. some changes work some do not. my problem is that i have no consistency all the way around - i'm sort of along for the ride rather than actually being in control of it. i think all the inputs that i am reacting to now are not really the correct ones, be it my knee or lack of reference points. it may not be really a matter of slowing down but rather just paying more attention to the correct things rather than the crap that's apparently occupying the space between my ears. really the only things that changed was i braked later, got on the gas sooner, and adjusted my lines accordingly. this led to new reference points as well. to get faster, i keep pushing how far i can brake, how soon i can get on the gas. as i do that i change my reference points so that if i do it once, i know i can do it again. im still "connecting the dots", its just my dots are in different places then yours

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twist of the wrist http://www.trackwhores.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193	Page 1 of 2

Author:	madski [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
lol, so you changed pretty much everything

Author:	GixxrSixxr [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
lol i guess what im trying to say it, do a lap and pick reference points you are comfortable with. pick a braking one, turn in, and the apex. get comfortable with the ones you chose. then go past your braking RP to a new one, pick a new turn in point, and adjust where you apex according. do that a little at a time and you will be braking later, turning in hard, eventually going faster. idk if that makes sense. i know what im trying to say, idk if its coming out right

Author:	madski [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
see i never really applied the shit i learned in driving to my riding, no idea why. i spent some time thinking about it of late and i understand what you are saying and you're correct. i just need to actually give the shit some thought while i'm riding/sitting in the pits. the turns i've thought through say at beaver i am prety good on, the ones i just ad lib every lap i fuck up every lap - there's a lesson in there some where

Author:	GixxrSixxr [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
madski wrote: see i never really applied the shit i learned in driving to my riding, no idea why. i spent some time thinking about it of late and i understand what you are saying and you're correct. i just need to actually give the shit some thought while i'm riding/sitting in the pits. the turns i've thought through say at beaver i am prety good on, the ones i just ad lib every lap i fuck up every lap - there's a lesson in there some where why do you only think about certain ones and not all of them?

Author:	madski [ Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: twist of the wrist
i think because i am more comfortable with them - going back to beaver, i seem to get good feed back from CR's on 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and to a degree 7. I get crap for 1 and 10/11, at least since switching bikes. and as one would have it i am far more comfortable and consistent throught those turns and i know where my reference points are, etc. so i'm guessing by some dumb luck i managed to get those more or less ok and was able to work on them further. on the ones i clusterfuck i don't have any consistency at all, i get frustrated and only make them worse - i just never really thought about it before the last 2 or 3 session at beaver earlier this year.

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